A ticking bomb, an empty room with a hanger from the dry-cleaners, a radiator, two in captivity with their hands tied behind their backs, and that’s it. With less than 60 seconds left on the clock, only MacGyver can stay focused and optimistic, get himself untied, get his companion freed and flip the trick back on the assailant at the speed of lightening. That takes incredible problem solving and grace under fire that only a character on a TV show has. Or is it?
In celebration of the 150th episode of the Full PreFrontal Podcast, Sucheta will talk about applying strong Executive Function to daily problem solving using a "MacGyvering" mindset and Jugaad principles. Human ingenuity is the antidote to "functional fixedness” and is the resource that acts as a catalyst for personal evolution through which each of us can go beyond our personal or circumstantial constraints.
About Host, Sucheta Kamath
Sucheta Kamath, is an award-winning speech-language pathologist, a TEDx speaker, a celebrated community leader, and the founder and CEO of ExQ®. As an EdTech entrepreneur, Sucheta has designed ExQ's personalized digital learning curriculum/tool that empowers middle and high school students to develop self-awareness and strategic thinking skills through the mastery of Executive Function and social-emotional competence.
Sucheta Kamath: Welcome to Full PreFrontal exposing the mysteries of executive function. Here's another important podcast episode for you. And I'm so delighted to share with you that it's a milestone episode. This is our 150th, believe it or not 150th episode. And it's been a privilege and a pleasure of mine to be able to talk to experts and thinkers, people who have given a lot of thought to how executive function can be evaluated, how can they be defined, and how to really apply the skill set to everyday life. So today, I thought, I'll take a moment to set the stage to really talk about best ways to apply executive function to everyday life. So of course, the goal is to for every human being the goal is to create goals, make a plan, prioritize, achieve these goals, and propel one's own life towards successful life experience. And there are plenty of roadblocks and those roadblocks can be emotional roadblocks. They can be actually thinking roadblocks, or they can be circumstantial roadblocks. Things don't go per plan, things don't go your way. And you have sometimes no luck, and executive function really come to play because they shine when you run into a problem. And so today's topic is macgyvering. So, yeah, that sounds crazy. But let me explain. So imagine a ticking bomb with a countdown clock, an empty room with a lonely hanger left behind from the dry cleaner, a radiator and two people in captivity with their hands tied behind their backs. And that's it. Lucky for us, one of them. One of those two people is Richard Dean Anderson who is playing a character called MacGyver. This is a 1985 original series, and those who remember 80s and 90s may recall MacGyver, but if you are new to MacGyver, please go to YouTube and check it out. So with less than 60 minutes, seconds left on the clock, only MacGyver can stay focused and optimistic, get himself untied get his companion freed, and flip the trip back on the assailant at the speed of lightning. That takes incredible problem solving and grace under fire. The question is, Is Is this a gift or an exaggeration? Because it's a character played on TV show. So in celebration of this 150th episode of Full PreFrontal podcast, I would like to discuss daily problem solving and the same macgyvering mindset and how humans can propel their personal evolution by adopting a macgyvering problem set solving mindset and engage in daily innovation.
So ready. So here we go. Let's think about this. So why am I calling this macgyvering? Because one of the characteristics of this whole series where MacGyver, who was a detective, he's a, you know, he's a problem solver, but he manages to find himself in this unique situation where there's life at stake, and a disaster is looming. And he has minimal resources, and he has to act swiftly. And he has to produce results that are favorable. And if he doesn't act in such ways, then of course, there's a risk that everything will go haywire. So there are lots of examples of this. They're they're absolutely hilarious clips about it. But for example, there's one clip you know, there's MacGyver bypasses a security camera using just a mirror and a clothes hanger. So apparently clothes anger is a very common tool, another you know episode where MacGyver uses a pack of cigarettes and a pair of binoculars to get past this intricate laser system to crack the code. So few things that he's able to demonstrate that he is absolutely come in a crisis. That's one characteristic. Secondly, he has incredible swiftness intelligence to swiftly assess the problem. He of course, demonstrates high level of motivation, who wants to die, of course, everybody will have high motivation if you're in a crisis where you need to get out alive. But he also has sound knowledge. MacGyver sounds to me like an engineer, you know, and the most characteristic thing here is he uses, you know, your run of the mill, everyday tools. So there's a simple characteristic of his behavior, which is called repurposing. So, you know, in fact, there's actually a definition, you know, actual Oxford dictionary definition of MacGyvering, which is make or repair an object in an improvised or inventive way, making use of whatever items are at hand. And, and so this definition is kind of covers a lot of elements of problem solving, and adaptive flexibility, which is a key characteristic of executive function. That's what MacGyveringdemonstrates, and that's why I'm interested in this topic for me. And and also I wanted all of you give some joy, enjoyment of understanding that executive function is not something abstract and a distant construct is actually present, omnipresent phenomenon, and you can only notice it when people are failing at it. But when you get yourself out of trouble, or when you solve a problem with swiftness, you may not even give yourself credit for demonstrating executive function. So coming back to the MacGyvering process, using everyday object, you know, the hallmark of MacGyvering maneuver is to think on your feet, use everyday objects, and save yourself or prevent bad results, so to speak, or the world prevent the world from experiencing this impending doom. So, you know, and paperclip is another common tool that MacGyver uses, but in one particular episode, he actually diffuses a bomb last minute last second, or using a paperclip. So everyday life rarely is full of disasters, but most likely we encounter roadblocks.
So the real application here is can we apply MacGyvering principles. So there's a cute little meme that I saw recently, and you'll have to imagine this because I it's a it's an image rather than a story. But, you know, there were, there were pictures of two Sharpies, and the heading said no one takes my Sharpie. And the first Sharpie had, you know, the, the top of the Sharpie was, you know, put in place so, and it was yellow. So what do we know about yellow Sharpies, nobody wants to use that it comes in a packet, but really has any function. But the MacGyvering here was somebody took the black sharpie, and put a yellow lid, so nobody will touch it, because it looks like yellow Sharpie, but you have it for yourself. So that you need whenever you need it, you have access to it. So I thought that was really clever. So it's a solution, where which actually hinges upon good assessment of anticipated problem. It also requires being clever and creative. But most importantly, there's a simplicity to it. There is a genuine human innovation there by deploying for thought. So those are some of the features of this type of problem solving. You know, during the pandemic, I watched several episodes of the set Meyer show. And there was a wonderful little innovation that I noticed which probably nobody cared about, but it's called Wally sponge. That's the title I gave to my own little notes that I keep on these daily observations or musings that I noticed when people are solving problems but what he so the cue card holder His name is Wally who's on Seth Meyer's show. He actually used to lick his fingers to turn the cards, the cue cards that he was holding.
But when the pandemic happened, and you have you had to wear a mask and he had a face shield, how would he wet his fingers to go to the next cue card. So what he did is he attached a little tiny sponge to his face mask, wet sponge, and then he would rub his finger on the wet sponge and use that wetness to flip through these sticky pages are so clever. So there's a modification of a technique or a need, there's a need. There's a problem. And the solution is very simple. It's maybe 10 But it is also doesn't require investment, a large investment.
Another quick, cute example. You know, while COVID-19 was raging, I saw a little a news clip that, you know, in, in the Children's Hospital at Vanderbilt, patients and families had to wear masks. And the caregivers were wearing masks while we're working with children. So these group of nurses came up with a beautiful hack, a little simple solution. They made buttons of their own faces, you know, and they began to wear it. So they call it a button project at the Monroe, Carroll Jr, Children's Hospital. Or at least the headlines read that what was so clever about that is, again, you assess the need, the need is to wear the mask needs, the children get to have a personal relationship, as they're going through painful experience of having to fight an ailment. How do we connect? And how do we emotionally connect? How do we connect, you know, entire treatment or our relationship as caregivers relies on being able to express your face. So when you're deprived of that, they came up with a button idea. And then as time passed by, I also saw saw some additional innovation where people actually came up with the see through transparent parts, to the masks where you could see people's lips and see them smile, so that there's some sense of connection. So so that is a lovely way to think about this MacGyvering process.
So as we talk about problem solving, I want to also introduce this idea of it's something bigger, behind the scenes cognitive process involved in problem solving. So in 1945, a psychologist named Karl Duncker put forth a simple problem, where he had four things, you know, he provided people with four things, a little box with tax thumbtacks, you know, a candle, and matchbox, you know, match matches and and then he instructed people and say, here's a candle, some thumbtacks. And some matches, your job is to attach the candle to the wall. So the wax doesn't drip on the table. That's it. And I'm sorry, you're listening to a podcast. So you might have to imagine, but if you just, you know, Google it, you can see, you can type in the candle problem, or you can say Karl Duncker and you can see the setup. But what was so neat about this is so you have to attach the candle to the wall, but you don't have a holder, how do you so the idea is, of course, thumbs, the thumbtacks can hold things, but you don't have any additional holder. So here, one of the ways to innovate is to empty the box that holds the tack, and make that box a container for the candle and then tack it to the wall using using the thumbtacks. And then of course, use the matchstick to light up the you know, light of the candle. That's it, that was the simple ways to go about it. But what he found his research unveiled a cognitive phenomenon called functional fixedness. And what happens is functional fixedness refers to you, your brain gets locked in to a particular way of conceptualizing a function of objects that you're seeing. So when the thumbtack holder, the box that held the thumbtacks, were seen as a resource for holding a thumbtack, the people got stuck and they couldn't imagine that the emptying the box was okay. And you can use the same holding function of the box for holding the candle. So you transpose holding of thumbtacks to holding of candle and so those who did this successfully, of course, demonstrated greater cognitive flexibility and higher executive function.
So the type of problem solving MacGyvering refers to implies that you have to actually do this repurposing and so when you see a paperclip what MacGyver was doing, is he was extending or opening up the paperclip and now It became a long wire, and then with the wire, he could tie with the wire, he could plug and plug it with the wire, he could, you know, insert things into things. So he repurposed and so he definitely did not suffer from cognitive, you know, fixated impetus. So one of the things, however MacGyvering , my, my imply might imply that you have to be very fast, and you have to be very quick when you encounter a problem. And that's actually not so one of the reasons MacGyver was able to be so fast and swift was because he was really, really smart. And he had a lot of knowledge, he had vast context, which he could apply. And so one of the things that we have, I like to talk about when I talk about problem solving, or teach children and adults problem solving, I always talk about the second part, which is a deep and reflective problem solving. So imagine, when you just learn to drive your car, and this happened to me, I was actually 25 when I came to this country, and my husband gave me lessons so that I could drive and we had this dinky car. And the first time I was in Ohio, and I practiced in, you know, large parks, and empty and barren parking lot. And then we went to a football field, and we practice there. And finally, it was time to go on the road. And I was so busy looking at every single mechanism involved in driving the car, that my husband, who was sitting next to me was shouting, come on, come on, accelerate, accelerate, because in a 60 miles zone, I was driving at 32 miles an hour, and every single person was driving by and was honking. So my ability to do problem solving when I'm a novice person, and my exposure to my skill sets are raw, and they're underdeveloped, is simply not possible. So I it's really hard to imagine somebody actually using a paperclip to do something, if you don't have a deep and come knowledge of the engineering of our lasers work, how reflective refraction and reflection and, and how you can, you know, concentrate, you know, energy and light, something on fire. All that knowledge needs to be acquired when you don't have a problem, or you actually have taken care of your understanding. So that deep analysis of a problem is an essential step to be able to be swift in problem solving.
So the reason I'm sharing this with you that when we talk about teaching or promoting our own problem solving, we have to really kind of evaluate our knowledge base. So if our knowledge base is weak, we cannot be amazing problem solvers. So let's focus on that first. Okay, so so instead of getting carried away by the the speed with which somebody problem solve, I would really encourage all of us to think about how deeply Have you thought about the problem. And you know, people like Carl Newport who has done a lot of work in this area about deep work talks about this time that you allow yourself, where you reflect, we caught you contemplate, and you actually think about long lasting impact of your solution. So you don't want to come up with a solution. That's temporary, right? So another important aspect of MacGyvering, or taking MacGyvering. and applying this mindset of problem solving is to really searching for solutions within. So when people when we think about effective executive function is, is primarily a great emotional and temperamental control. So your input controlling your impulses, your controlling your, you know, desire to quickly react. So that's the first stage. Second is you're deploying your working memory to look at the range of, or the scope of the problem, and you're going to determine what's the problem? How bad is it? How do I need to worry about something? What will be the consequences? If I don't solve this problem? What will be the consequences if I do effectively solve it? What I have to solve this problem again and again, can I come up with a more of a permanent solution rather than a temporary one. So a temporary solution is to defuse the bomb and get out of this building where the bomb is about to explode, that will be a MacGyvering solution. But a bigger solution would be to really not get into problems where you are constantly surrounded by bombs that are likely to explode. But MacGyver situation is a little bit different because he is a detective and he is the one who's helping people or saving them. So.
So when we talk about searching for solutions with then that requires pausing, and looking inside for solutions. So one of the solutions that we must really, exercise is mindset mindset shift. And so looking at obstacles as an opportunity is a remarkable seed for problem solving. So problem solving is how you go about it. But before you go about it, you need to have a mindset of Will I be going about it differently? So I, when I work with people, one of the things that I really help people is help learners to look at the problem as an opportunity for self improvement. And what is that opportunity look like? So number one is to say, you know, when I face a problem, I get irritated, and I find it very annoying, or I get impatient, or I get frustrated. So if you are that person who gets annoyed, frustrated, and irritated, then you're likely attitude to any problem is I don't want to have a problem, well, then you don't want to breathe or you don't want things to, you know, surprise you Well, that's just not possible. Life is full of surprises. And, and it is really, truly impossible for us to avoid problems altogether. What we can avoid is, you know, cognitive fixated ness, or mental inflexibility or rigidity. So, since MacGyvering is making or repairing an object by improvising things from the environment in an inventive ways. Or there's another definition, which is repurposing and solving problems with situational innovation, so why not make use of whatever items and whatever access to people that we have? I like to, in my work, like to call some call on my street committee. So what's the street committee construct committee is trusted advisors that you can always depend on and run your approach to problems so that they can say, I will do the same. Or they can say no, no, no, I do it differently. And here's how. So, this is an important way of activating your inner compass of aligning your solutions with a consensus of effective problem solving. So that solutions can have permanent impact or solutions will lead to not the reoccurrence of the problem. So, now, just going back to another feature of MacGyvering process is the concept of presence of mind. You know, presence of mind is nothing but thinking on your feet quickly, being aware where the problematic situation is, and really taking action that can have a dramatic impact.
So you know, there was a in 2019, I saw this little news. And now you can see it on YouTube, of course, but there was a woman who ran into a bushfire in Australia, when she spotted a little baby koala that was crawling through the place. Of course, upon inspection later on, they found that the baby koala was injured and was not able to get itself but instead of moving away from the fire, it was walking towards the fire. So what MacGyvering she did is she quickly removed her top and and in her bra, she jumped into you know, the bushes where the fire was about to spread and wrapped the baby koala around using her top and and safely brought back to safety and of course, and then she ran to her car and then she found a bottle of water and then she cooled off. And then of course, the koala was taken to the hospital and they found that the baby koala had suffered severe burns on his feet and chest and stomach, and then eventually needed some treatment. But it survived. It survived because of the presence of mind that this woman exhibited, which did require her to think about repurposing her shirt as a protective shield. And for that the inhibition that your brain prefrontal cortex says don't don't take off your shirt. You will be only in your bra. So she had to weigh options, which is me bring brawlers for a second versus this baby color being saved.
And then this is how prioritization works. One trumps the other and and so the presence of mind implies that we don't have a lot of time to evaluate our And judge priorities are judged or determined priorities based on values. And that's why when your values are higher values, you're likely to circumvent the decision making process, because then the driving force will be doing the right thing. So I hope listening to the 149 episodes thus far, you have gathered this knowledge about approach to executive function, that it is not about solving a problem, it is not just getting by it is really making an impact for taking an impactful action and really thinking beyond self. Let's take another example. You know, there, there was a story that I I don't remember, but I think it was in 2015. This was a story about 211 year old boys, you know, once name was Tom said, and Charlie Lockwood, you know, they both were, you know, playing in the local pool, and they noticed that one of their fellow classmates, schoolmate was lying on the bottom of the tarragon pool, and they started was very odd. So one of the boys quickly acted, and he and his friend pulled this boy out. And, of course, they saved his life where the you know, the lifeguard jumped in, grabbed, grabbed him, brought him to the edge, and then of course, resuscitated, which saved the boy's life. So that's the presence of mind. So you're, you're playing around in the pool, and you have to determine what's a playful act, and when the line has been crossed into a dangerous laying still, is something you know, boys and girls have little kids can say, I'm pretending to be still at the bottom of the pool as a as a joke as a play. But this little boy had the presence of mind to say what this is not how it's supposed to be. And instead of pondering over it, he acted, and the risk here is a same, the comparison I'm going to give you is the risk of being brawlers. Because one of the reasons, there's something called bystander effect, that means sometimes people don't take actions, because they are afraid that their actions will be judged to be inappropriate, or they may be considered too bold and cross this social acceptability filter.
And, and so I think in dangerous situations, we have to kind of take those risks. And this is what I would also when I do my work, I talk about, you know, higher goals, trump lower goals. And what I mean by that is that children to activate their moral compass to activate their decision making, they have to think about who am I helping? Who am I preventing from getting hurt? So when you activate that lens, you're likely to put aside this awkwardness that you might feel that oh, my God, am I the only one? Or what will people say people might laugh that you are too? too anxious? Well, sometimes, yes, that can be hit or miss. But sometimes it can be incredibly helpful step that you can take. So continuing with this idea of presence of mind, you know, there was a story about a woman Linda Doughty, I think, and she is a marine biologist, and she has been in this profession for 20 years, but then eventually, you know, as a lover of marine life began to notice, she's from Maine began to notice some of these seals that were getting washed off to the shore and, and so she launched this show, she now runs a hotline and brings these marine creatures and apparently 95% of them turn out to be seals and and so she has now created this amazing process of satellite tagging and and, and then eventually nursing them to health and then eventually releasing them back. And and so all this effort began by observing a problem around a her life around her and applying her expertise to it. So the reason I'm giving now is I'm pivoting here a little bit because it's not about presence of mind. presence of mind is an immediate, urgent, quick problem solving, you know, but there there is a long, a long standing history of solving problems by by really taking a look of assessing your environment and assessing your knowledge set and saying, Is there anything I can do with my My knowledge, my expertise.
And so this is another thing when we work with children, we need to really think about that we are so focused on getting their homework done, making sure that they become good students, but we don't necessarily nurture their problem solving mindset can Am I impactful is one of the things that the children should be taught to thought to think and and impactful ness is not. Yes, when you do your homework, the impact on the family is that you there's less, you know, aggravation, there's, there's more cooperation, and you're helping the family so that you're not a burden on your older brother or sister or your parents who are really stretched thin by having to take care of so many other things. So yes, there's cooperativeness, that can lead to taking care of your business as a student, but when we talk about problem solving is to really how am I helping? And how can I be of use to somebody and something so that's really a really important part about, you know, beyond MacGyvering.
And so now, I want to talk about the last part of this MacGyvering concept. And I'm going to bring in an Indian concept called Jugaad. I'm not sure if you have heard the term if you're new. I it has been popularized by, you know, some marketing researchers in 2012, there was a book that was published called Jugaad innovation, a frugal and flexible approach to innovation for the 21st century. It's written by four authors. And Rajo is one of the authors. And it's interesting, you know, actually, the concept has now been officially studied, there are enough research articles that talk about it, but Oxford Dictionary has now included this word. And it is defined as a flexible approach to problem solving that uses limited resources in an innovative way.
So going back to that paper clip and magnifying glass and, and the camera and a hammer and a hanger, you know, part of MacGyver technique, but this is actually talking about real application and even in a marketing context. So the informal meaning of the word includes, such as work arounds, or life hack or a quick fix. And, you know, just simply I want to read read you the table of content, if you have not read the book, it's a fantastic book, I highly recommend but the table of content, for example, is, uh, you know, the first is Jugaad a breakthrough, a growth strategy. Principle. One is seek opportunity in adversity principle to do more, with less, and so on and so forth. So I'm going to talk a little bit about that, you know, I grew up in India, I came to the US when I was 25. And I one of the things you know, being frugal and being savvy was really, really important to my cultural experience. And I came from middle class India and there were no ample resources to waste including water I remember you know, it wasn't we did not have did I have shower in my bathroom? No, we did not. So what we had facets and what we would have to do is and eventually we had geezer, which is sounds terrible because I think in colloquial American geezer has some other meaning to it, but it was a hot water tank and you would adjust the temperature but it will flow through a small pipe it didn't like explode like a shower or Mr. different settings. Now the modern showers have, I didn't grew up with any of that. So typically, the way we would do it is you fill up a bucket with hot water and ADD as much cold water as you want to make the temperature suitable to your needs. And you get one bucket and depending on whose house you are, the size of the bucket will determine the size of your shower, or bath, so to speak, standing bath and one of the things that you know, God here meant is to really innovate, how to take a enjoyable bath with very little water. And and so one of the things that I would do if you want more water, then you have colder water because you're adding lots of cold water to hot water.
So when I traveled to my grandparents, that was one of the things you got. They even didn't even have geezer which was electric, you they had a containers that would be heated once a day. And everybody if you have five family members or 10 because you have grandchildren visiting, everybody gets the same amount. Everybody has to share that that heated water tank that was heated with coal. Anyway, the reason I'm saying all this to you guys is Jugaad means making the most with the least amount of resources in an innovative way to solve problems or to minimize the impact of discomfort or create more harmony and ease of life for everybody. So, you know, there are pictures of myself seen it I've read about it is the the, you know, attaching diesel engines to carts, you know, the carts that you pull with hands, and create, you know, ingenious versions of transportation that is operated now with a mortar. Yeah, and and we don't have to go and leave the country.
Another example of Jugaad was a laugh box. You know, Charles Douglas was the inventor of laugh box. And what he did, he was a television engineer, and he, he was producing shows, and he realized that we don't have to wait for people to laugh, or to have people who are the audience members find things funny. So that what he introduced is recorded laughter. And as the show was being produced and recorded, he would drop these lines and inciting laughter. Because there's a psychological phenomenon where you feel Wow, so many people found it. Funny, it must be funny, It's me who's not finding it funny. So you join. So what they found that people enjoyment equation changed by adding the laugh box or the, you know, fake. So that's, that's a little Jugaad, where you have engineering that is designed engineering knowledge to design, and you have machinery that records and you're recording the show the content, but he repurposed the machinery to record the laughter. And he overlaid the laughter, which was supposed to be organic, but this way, creating and changing the entire chemistry, of people's experiences of pre recorded shows. So I thought that's a really remarkable example of Jugaad.
You know, the author NaVi. Raj Zhu is he's a French French American scholar who wrote the book on, he's one of the co authors or lead authors on Jugaad. He says, We are entering what I call the age of convergence, in which first world and third world issues are converging to create problems without borders. And in that context, I really feel that we need to create a generation of problem solvers who not only think deeply about the problems, assess the impact of problems, if unsolved, and also determine the positive impact of the solutions they create, but also learn to think on their feet. So there's a lot of components of executive function involved here, resiliency, flexibility, and and then you ADD context of access of resources, frugality, and simplicity can result from it. But more importantly, the Jugaad principle tackles to higher order thinking skills and higher order human skills, which is empathy and compassion. So your solutions can have an impact on the world.
And so this is really, really critical, because we are talking about the world with massive resource constraints. And the world is managing to meet its goals by doing this repurposing, and adjusting and innovating in these spaces. And America may be falling behind because of our abundance, underutilized abundance. And And I'm not talking about poverty in America. And I'm not expressing disregard to the poverty of America, but I'm talking about the mindset, the mindset that when all the things are in place, I'm I will be capable of functioning optimally, we need to encourage our kids to perform optimally under all circumstances by empowering them and deploying in our engineering by adjusting attitudes and removing in flexibility and, and really, really taking charge of one's own humanity and innovation.
So as I conclude, I want to say it innovation is a key pinnacle of human in January would be to apply These principles of MacGyvering to social and economic injustices and I have witnessed this myself Mahatma Gandhi, Mahatma Gandhi's Satyagraha movement at the nonviolent violence movement was Ecuador. A was a innovation in an under resourced circumstances, and by creating resistance, so a unique and innovative ways to solve a problem to neutralize the impact of powers of oppression. So, I will end with one of the blogs that I read in preparation of this podcast by Rena I Arya who wrote the extent of protracted problem solving availability of resources and durability of these examples problematized their conceptualization as examples of Jugaad even though they strive for core features, integral to Jugaad namely frugality and inclusivity So I love that inclusivity So please, take a moment to introspect your own life circumstances of daily problems, ask yourself, Am I able to yield best results with limited resources? And are my resources limited because I am harboring a mindset of limited resources because the abundance is within me. And as I create solutions, I hope I am also committed to inclusivity
So with that, I would love to end this podcast if you love what you listen, please subscribe. Please write us a review. Share your thoughts reach out to me. My email is firstname.lastname@example.org. Thank you so much.