Sucheta Kamath: Welcome back to full PreFrontal, exposing the mysteries of executive function. I'm your host, Sucheta Kamath, and I believe that we must live in your truth and in your passion and finding life to be a mission where you can find and create a pathway to success. The most important thing about that process, though, is to know what your goals are. And I love to think about enlightened self interest, goals versus selfish goals, and it is your executive function that allows you to pursue anything and everything with passion, persistence and consistency. But if you don't have passion, maybe there's a pathway to discovering your own passion. So with that said, I am so, so excited to speak to a very, very special guest. As I'm looking at the landscape of, you know, I am in education, so I look at the landscape of time, as you know, fall till summer, because school year begins. So now we are looking at 2024. Fall schools will open very soon, and I wanted to bring somebody very inspiring, an educator, an influencer, an encourager, who can actually not just talk about how he lives in that space, but also maybe something we can pick up for ourselves, so that the days we feel discouraged defeated, there's something we can find that helps us pick ourselves together and move forward. So today I have Mickey Smith Jr. He is an educator, educator extraordinaire. I would say he is 2020, Grammy Music Educator Award recipient. He is a seven time Teacher of the Year. Now, guys, I don't even know if you understand the significance of this, because to become one time Teacher of the Year, you, like all educators in the state, have to be nominated by individual schools, then individual districts, then all pulled into one, and then to pick one is an enormous, inordinate task for people who are selecting but He has been chosen seven times, and he's the founder of sound 180 educators. And he also is a founder of Smith enrichment and solutions. He currently is an band director and at one of the schools in West Palm Beach, and he where he teaches grades four to 12. I personally was honored to hear him give a keynote at the Georgia School Board Association talk. And you would be thinking, why do school board members need to hear an educator who walks into the room with his saxophone and inspires them well, you will soon know why we have him come and join us. So welcome Mickey. Welcome to the podcast. 

Mickey Smith Jr.: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. It's a it's an honor to be here today, and I appreciate the invitation to be able to share and and just share the space. I'm looking forward to this. This is, uh, this is, this is quite the departure from what I normally get to do. You know, most of my days are spent with folks about the age of eight, if I'm lucky, all the way up to age 18, but not often do we get to talk about the nuts and the bolts, so to speak, that make up teaching. And I'm just honored to be here, and I thank you, Sucheta, for what you do. And just just excited about this whole PreFrontal concept that we're going to be talking about today.

Sucheta Kamath: And Mickey the reason to even have you as an inspiring educator on this podcast, because our worlds overlap in many ways. So we both are in business of educating children to learn, and I we are from there you go into finding your own way through music, and I do that by finding your own way by learning how to learn, by learning about yourself. So the skills that I focus on are called executive function skills, which is how students, children, adolescent and adults, learn to self manage by learning to create goals for oneself, create a plan, but most importantly, persist through passage of time, because the goals they have come up with are of significance to them. But more importantly, there are some goals that we must pursue. Whether they are goals, they may not be our favorite goals. So such as I want to I may not. I may love math, but. I may hate science or I don't like reading, but I love music. I'm in my band class children from K to 12 area do not have that choice, so it's called motivational mismatch. So my goal is to help educators understand how the children's brains work, and my goal is also to create something special that I have done through my platform ExQ, to learn how to learn by learning about self as a learner and a thinker. So for starters, I want to start by asking you some questions that I ask all my guests, which is about your own executive function skills. So do you mind if I ask you that how you were as a child from K to 12 space as a learner and a thinker.

Mickey Smith Jr.: Okay, fine. I don't know that anybody has ever asked me that, and I say that that way, because I think we teach the way we were taught. I think a lot of how we teach is a reflection of the experience we had and how we learned. And it's so interesting to me that who I've been celebrated for. I don't know that I was celebrated as when I was little, for example, a lot of different factors went into this, but going into middle school, I was a C and D student, you know, I failing okay, because that to me, I love my kids, but we don't, we don't, we don't do the whole C-D thing. You know what I'm saying? Like, that's not that my parents promoted those poor grades, but it was a series of different things. You know, I grew up in a community that was actually the entire town was demolished and they built a chemical plant on top of it. So before all that happened, they closed the school. I had to go to a neighboring town. I found out later that my vision was it was prohibiting me from learning properly. I didn't know I had a I needed glass, literally, the vision, yeah, so I needed glasses. I wasn't aware. I wasn't aware of that. And because I changed schools, there were some things that they knew at that school and in a certain certain certain things that they had covered that I hadn't covered yet. So all these created the perfect storm for me to be seen as a poor student, right? So I found my report card when I recently moved from Louisiana to Florida, and as I looked at it, it said C's and D's, but at the bottom of the report card, it had behavior, I guess, for lack of better word, behavior, grades, O for outstanding, for those that may not remember those days or whatever, S for satisfactory, and then N for not satisfactory. When you were a kid, you didn't want an n, that was a bad thing. So when I look at the report card, it says he's, he's disruptive. He talks too much in class, and wow, they said he's distracted. He draws too much in class, in he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's just doesn't have any he, he's making too much noise. He's tapping on things. And, you know, he's, he's disruptive and, Well, long story short, I ran into some sound adults in my life after, after having those four grades, folks like my geography teacher, Mr. Anselette, and he, he helped put me in positions to, I guess not I look back on it, begin to exercise that executive function. I got to participate in what they call it, the geography bee, like, the like, it's like. So this, really, this was the first time ever I had had to stand on the stage and be able to speak and to share and to and to think and to connect and to compete in that way academically, that I just automatically did athletically, but I'd never done in a class setting. He was that pathway was the first time I had ever went on to attend a college because the state geography B was at Louisiana State University. First time anybody in my family had ever stepped foot on a college. So I'm telling you all that because after coming to middle school as a C and D student, three years later, I was student of the year. Four years later, I was the first male in my family to graduate from college, first in my family, to go to college, first to graduate from college, and I hold multiple degrees, and I've been awarded and acclaimed, and now fast forward. The ironic part is I get paid as a public speaker to talk too much. I get paid as an award winning illustrator and author to draw too much I get paid as a musician, Grammy Award winning music educator, to make too much noise. So it's so funny that the thing that was perceived as my deficiency was actually my destiny. It was my superpower in disguise, and that lesson hasn't been. Lost on me when I go into a classroom. I believe that it's so important not only to teach the subject matter, but to teach the student that they matter, and our ability to do more than just teach, but to reach, to do more than just instruct, but to inspire. That's the game changer, not just for the student, but for the teacher as well, because it allows both student and teacher to walk in this pathway of significance that allows us to do something more than just do, but to be because at the end of the day, I think there's a reason we're called human beings and not human doings. So this, this idea of executive function, this, this idea of management, self management so important, because I think what music has done for me, and I want to get your thoughts on this music. Music for me, is a powerful vehicle that I feel teaches self leadership, and that's what I cast to that. So the goal of my classroom is to not be banned, as usual. The goal of my classroom is to not have my students in such a way. And I have a story I'll share with you about this later, if you help me remember no, go ahead. Yes, yes, I'll remember it. I don't want my students to just be able to play the song that I taught. I want them to have so much executive function that goes beyond just the literacy of the music, but the understanding of who they are in the music and what we're doing and how it's so much more than just a fingering or a note or a position, but that is an opportunity for communication and a challenge for us to actually know who we are so that the music can speak to that. So this is why, like I said, that. This is why I'm so excited about this idea. Because, again, for me, band is more than music. It's an opportunity.

Sucheta Kamath: I again, I think you said it, now I'm going to say it. This can go in so many directions, and my brain is just bursting with ideas and exciting things to get you to share and talk about. So I do want you to tell me the story about your student I'm gonna get quickly make this connection between your journey. And I think the reason I even ask is to be really, hopeful that every audience member, may they be psychologists or, you know, parents or educators or principals or superintendents. I want them to hear this because I will tell you Mickey, 99% of people who I interview who are world renowned experts in many their domain of expertise, and they talk about their executive function as I did not know anything about myself, or other people knew more about who I potentially could be than I did and many students, particularly those who went through K to 12 journey feeling bad or being treated as not most competent because the way they behaved or responded to opportunity of learning, still came to the top, but they may or may not feel good about themselves, and for some it was really arduous because they gave up. And I think we have such a responsibility to really make sure that every child has an opportunity to understand that they are the agents of their destiny. And so I'm very excited to ask you the next question. So one of the things that I really and you have such an inspiring story about going into education, but can you tell us a little bit about your worldview as to what makes an educator educator

Mickey Smith Jr.: Well, I truly feel that we're all teachers. Everybody, everybody's a teacher. Everybody has that capacity for information to come through them for the benefit of others, but my personal definition of an educator is so much more. I think an educator is someone who not only gives information, but gives a sense of value, not only to the information that they're sharing, but to the individual that's receiving it. And that goes beyond just being a teacher. I believe that an educator at its best is an opportunity to be a sound adult. And I feel like every child is just one sound adult away from discovering what I call their own sound. So your sound is that unique, personal significance that you carry. It's the thing that makes you uniquely you. It's like it's as singular as the thumbprint you possess. And oftentimes it's overlooked and undervalued. You know, sometimes people will see somebody that they think is amazing, and they fail to see, as you mentioned, the amazing that resides in them. And the thing is, amazing is not amazing. Amazing is how it is perceived or received by others. Because I've met a lot of what you would call celebrities, individuals who we see on TV, and sometimes I still pinch myself. I'm like, I can't believe I was actually in the room with this person. I had this conversation. And when you get down to the nuts and bolts of it, more times than not, they're just people like you and I. And when I say that most often, yeah, well, I say that because, of course, everybody is just people, but their mindset, their mindset, most often, they just realize, you know that they're just they deal with, they're just as frail, they're just as oftentimes insecure, they're oftentimes just as, you know, just just lacking in confidence, sometimes in certain areas, as as the next person. But I think some of the keys to their super stardom is the fact that they were able to identify, or someone was able to identify their gift and their passion, and to intersect it in such a way that it was able to be promoted and shared in a way that the general population would see it and say, wow. But the cool thing is, we all have a wow factor. It just lies dormant for far too many of us. And what I believe a great educator can do, a great educator like Mr. Anne silett, can say, hey, you need to be in the geography bee, not understanding that it was never really about geography. It was about me as an individual, love that who I could be, and most importantly, where I could go in this thing called life. And once you give a child in particular, but anyone give a child a taste of success and significance and possibility, now you give them what I feel is a compelling future. It's that carrot in front of them that allows them to keep on going, because life for no one is perfect, but it can be purposed. I don't plan out my day. I put purpose in my day, each and every day, and I feel like the educators that have been in my life have been those sound adults that have allowed me the space, the opportunity and the agency to be on stages, to be on platforms, to make those sounds, to make those mistakes, to make those opportunities that allowed me to explore who I could be and how I could execute in a way that gave me not only watch this, not just confidence, but competence. And the cool thing is, once you get the competence, one thing I've seen in the classroom, if I give a kid a sense of competence, then automatically, they get more confidence. And when they get more confidence, they get hungry, they get a taste for success, and they want more competence. And before you know it, people like, why do they work so hard for you? Because they're not working for me. They're working for themselves. They finally bought into the idea that I am loved, I am valued, and I am wanted, and I do carry a level of significance in this thing called music. So it's not really about the art form as much as it's about the heart form, because that's what we're forming. That heart for competency and for confidence that will translate into this beautiful thing called perseverance.

Sucheta Kamath: Oh my goodness, so brilliant. Have you considered another career, become a preacher? I mean, I think so. I want to kind of attend to two things, and maybe you can elaborate a little bit more. I love your definition. So you're really talking about educator has a responsibility to unveil that this path, whatever we are doing now, is nothing to do about now. It's going someplace, and that value, the sense of value that they offer, maybe there's not enough unveiling of that may be happening from all parts of the child's experience. So I love that. So you're also really talking about this, this infinite responsibility of becoming an encourager, your lifelong encourager, when it comes when it comes to interacting. And you know, there's a Rogers was a psychologist, very famous psychologist, and he uses this term called charismatic adult. And the definition of a charismatic adult is from someone, a child draws strength. And I just love that definition. So how can you become the presence in a child's life from whom the child draws strength? So imagine that person, right? Yeah, not. Nobody says, like, can you draw knowledge? No, it's you are drawing strength from that person. That means I know I am a something I just don't know, but you believe in in me, and my potential makes me feel I have. Courage to stand in myself. Yeah, I think that's that definition of charismatic adult. And Mickey. I don't know if you're familiar with this research, but now for children with a very high ACE score, which is adverse childhood experiences, which is called A, C, E, I'm sure you know, and and those, there's a longitudinal studies done with a very high score, which is severe childhood trauma, more than six or eight values, and those children who had one adult one, that's all they needed, a charismatic adult, their life trajectory changed dramatically. And so to me, I take that role and responsibility so seriously when I encounter children. Sounds like you do too. So I would love to know a little bit about your where do you draw strength to become strength for children?

Mickey Smith Jr.: Well, drawing strength for me is, is, I think, the key, because I think far too many of us go out in our own strength. And the truth of the matter is, if you, I, my personal opinion is, if you're not, if you're not buying into, if you're not looking into, if you're not connected into something bigger than yourself, then you are an exhaustible resource. Okay? You're not inexhaustible. I mean, I hate to break it to the listeners out there. Nobody's getting out of this thing called life, alive. Okay, no, it's just, it's a fact.

Sucheta Kamath: Do you know birth is a life sentence? Did you hear this?

Mickey Smith Jr.: Birth is a life sentence. It's true, but it's so amazing to me when people believe that they can do things in and of their own strength only forever. And yes, there are some seasons where you know you have to walk a lonely road, maybe for a spell, for a season, but I think the biggest thing is to be of value to someone else. We have to ask ourselves, where are we drawing our strength from? I guess for me, before I answer that, it goes back to who we are, for the children you talked about, that charismatic adult, and then how, how do we become that person that someone draws strength from? I think, I think modern day teaching is relationship based teaching, and I think if we understand that, it doesn't mean that we're necessarily their friends. You know, it's so funny because my students, when they leave me, they, they, they they send me beautiful messages. Oh, we love you. Mr. Smith, and I know they mean it, but there's a part of me that that kind of laughs inside, because my my recollection of our first meetings are oftentimes anything but loving, because I have, I have a structure, and there's a rigor to what we do in our class, and people don't always. Everybody loves band The first week, and then when they find out, Oh, wow, there's a little work behind this. And boy, he he has a standard he holds. Right after a while, we're like, I don't know if we like this, Mr. Smith guy, right? And but as time goes on, they begin to understand that I'm not trying to as I like to say, I'm not trying to rub them the wrong way. I'm just polishing them up so they shine. And they understand that the rigor is actually that grind and that grit that allows them to illuminate and shine in a way and to be polished in a way that they could have never done in and of themselves. And how do I get kids to do this? It starts with trust. See, trust is the door that leads to relationship. Wow, yeah, relationship is the door that leads to influence, and influence then opens up a door to instruction, but if we lead with instruction, that's called a know it all. I've done it both ways. I've had great information. It doesn't matter how pristine or how beautiful the information is. The kids don't care. The kids won't care how much you know until they know first that you care about them, and that's why I say modern day teaching is relationship based teaching. We can't put instruction before the individual. We can't put curriculum in front of the kids. We have to lead as a trusted sound adult. So to answer your question, where do I find my passion? Often times, it's in the form of other sound trusted adults in my life, relationships that pour into me, whether it whether it's my wife, whether it's my kids, whether it's my circle, my sound circle of individuals, i. I have a lot of acquaintances, I have a lot of connections, but I have just a handful of friends and but those friends are like precious gems to me, because it's so funny. They always know just when to call it seems they always, they're always available. And I believe in this arduous journey called life, it's kind of like cheers back in the day. Sometimes you want to go where everybody knows your name and they're always glad you came. We know the song back in the day. And that's that's where the strength comes from. Do we have those, those relationships that we can rely on, that we can trust, that helps us then to be the trusted individual, and then, do we have a belief system? Do we have something that inspires us and gives us that broader vision of who we are, so that we can, as I like to say, See yourself beyond yourself. 

Sucheta Kamath: All right. So you, you know, I think just, just the pathway I love, that you came back, that not just thinking about, you know, the idea of a charismatic adult from whom we draw strength. A teacher cannot do that until the teacher actually has I like to use my words of inspired life, like those who stay in the space of living an inspired life. And, you know, I'll weave in some neuroscience here that one of the most healing emotion is the sense of awe. And awe is some an emotion where you feel you're minuscule, something is way bigger and more meaningful and far more significant than you. And when we experience that emotion on a daily basis, those people are able to activate their influence without having any attachment to taking ownership of that influence. So you're liberating people who receive the gifts from you. Do you understand what I'm saying? So it's not about trying to affect people, or trying to make people into subservient behavior, or lean in at my feet, kind of thing. There's a genuine feeling of collaboration that when I am the best I can be, because I draw strength from something so much bigger than me that my presence becomes an inspiration to you, and you're able to draw that strength from everywhere to live in your most inspired space. Do you understand that? To me, is the profound bidirectional relationship between teacher and student.

Mickey Smith Jr.: I'm gonna say something it sounds like for shock value, but I'm gonna go ahead and say it. This may cause a stir an uproar, but hear me out. Sucheta, you are attractive. Now, here's what I mean by this. You are beautiful. You are beautiful, but you're also attractive. Meaning, when we want to see something, it's important that we be the thing we want to see. Because the more you become it, the more you attract that. And oftentimes, when we find things in our life that are coming up over and over again, good or bad, there's oftentimes a chance that it's because we are that magnet, so to speak, right? I said earlier, we teach the way we were taught. So true. We our experience creates the experience that we have now to the point of the idea of seeing something bigger than yourself, I experienced that recently, sometimes something that looks attractive from a beautiful standpoint, visually, can be anything but for the individual who's experiencing it. For example, if somebody saw us when we moved from Louisiana, the place we moved to is beautiful, but guess what? It wasn't home, and there's no amount of beauty that can substitute for the familiarity that is home and relationships and those things that that are not replaceable, right? So there were days where, wow, I'm in this new place, and technically, it's wonderful, but man, sometimes people have a hard time understanding what I'm saying. I have to be very cognizant about how I speak, because in Louisiana, I could let my voice relax a little bit, but here I got to speak the King's English, right? Yes, you know, you're in West Palm Beach, baby, West Palm Beach, you know? And and maybe there's certain comfort foods I enjoyed, but that seasoning is not here. I miss my Louisiana or the kids said yes, ma'am and no, ma'am and yes, sir and No, sir. And there are other little, little quirks and little things that I saw as beautiful, but now is maybe deemed disrespectful, and now I have to figure out how. To navigate this. So I'm saying all these things because, you know, as as as a person that's new to a place, these little micro traumas, so to speak, can build up to the point where you begin to feel overwhelmed. How do you continue to be? Mr. Smith, when you feel anything but I found out something. I found out I like the beach. See, I can't really swim. Well, I've never, oh, really water person, but I love the beach. I started going there with great frequency, because I discovered something amazing when you go to the beach. For me, personally, when I go to the beach, it's so big. Yes, that whatever problem I brought to the ocean seems insignificant when I look at the ocean and it ain't even the biggest ocean, my goodness, don't let me get to the Pacific. I can do anything, right, right? We just looking at the Atlantic, right? So, yes, that idea of putting your sights, putting your perspective on something bigger than yourself is the greatest fuel for being phenomenal for someone else. Because once I left the beach, I knew I could, whatever that is, I knew I could, and I was able to bring that attractive energy back into the classroom, and I was able to attract children and draw children, because, again, I am a band director, which means my job is predicated upon recruitment and retention, so I have to be rigorous, but I also have to be relatable to the point, yes, he doesn't want to stay engaged, and that balancing act is as much about the content as it is about the content holder and giver, which is me.

Sucheta Kamath: Oh, wow. So I think here's the another beautiful thing that you touched upon is, without compromising the rigor, you can still be relatable. Sometimes I feel kids who are growing up in the Tiktok version of the world, they look at educators as entertainers, and if you're not entertainer, you're not important, or what you offer is not important. And teachers feel very discouraged by that calculation. They feel that the students may have in their head, but I always remind them that they're they may be drawn to one shiny object, but they also need stability, and they're also drawn to stability, so your knowledge and your presence can be stability. So do not expect less. Yeah, and I think this expecting less is also a teachers are victimized by their own lack of satisfactory reciprocity from a student, and I think that's where we need to kind of really double down and not give up. Rigor and relatability go hand in hand. Love it.

Mickey Smith Jr.: I always like to say, you know, discipline is not the enemy of enthusiasm. Like, yes, still have, matter of fact, it's, it's boundaries that create freedom, like when I have these boundaries, it creates a safe space, and it also promotes a spirit of expectation. It's like, your favorite show, you know, Friends, friends comes on, and you know exactly when to clap on the theme song, or you hear that sound. It's like, oh, the tonight show came on. You know, let's get let's get ready. You know, every great show has a very predictable start. It needs to be predictable because it wants we like patterns. We love patterns. So true predictability. But we don't want to do it at nauseum, but we have to give children these hooks, which is why music now is so repetitive, almost to a fault now, because they figured it out, okay? They figured out the hooks. And I believe that entertainment from an educator can be one of those viable hooks, but it cannot be a sustainable diet of hooks. There's a fish place across the street from where I'm at called hooks, okay? And that's, that's about as that's about as sustaining as I'm gonna do with hooks. I'm not like a diet of hooks, right? So, so watch this. I say that for this reason, those hooks, that entertainment, that is a level of motivation that is in that is necessary for engagement in a classroom, but it's so important that educators understand that motivation gets you started, but it's habits that keep you going. It's systems that help you to keep on going. It's routines, it's rituals that keep you going, things that can, in essence, become sustainable by the learner themselves, because ultimately, it's like my son okay when he was little. I'll never forget I had to call my boss and tell her I was going to be substantially late to school that day, which was odd, because I was the dude I am, the dude that is usually two hours early to work every day. And that's another story for another day. We talk about pouring in, priming our day, getting us ready so so i. Usually get to work super early, so she was very surprised to hear me say, Hey, I'm gonna be honest. I'm probably gonna be about 30 minutes late to school today. She said, is everything okay? You know? I said, Yes, something amazing had happened, and I have to be present for it. See, my four maybe year old, maybe three or four year old at the time, son decided he could tie his shoe. Now, what children don't realize is they they never it never occurs to them that, as parents, we pretty much see everything before they show us right, especially when they're little like that. But in his mind, all those weeks of him practicing the shoe tying in our presence. We didn't see that. He thought he was showing me that for the first time. So when he came to the kitchen, he said, Dad, watch I can tie my shoe. And he began to tie the shoe. The slowest any human has tied a shoe before. I said, Yeah, we gonna be here for a while, and then watch this. He got to the end, and he dropped the knot and he messed it up. He said, I might have to start back over. That's when I called my boss. I called the administrator. I said, I'm gonna be late. So why am I telling you that? Because that moment obviously was very important. It was significant. I needed him to know that who he was and what he was doing was important enough for me to stop but it was also selfish on my point, because I understood from teaching and watching kids grow up that I couldn't rush through this, because there was going to come a day where he wouldn't be interested in me seeing him tie a shoe. There would come a day where there may be a few hours go by and I don't even see him, he may not even want to talk. So for him to you know, as a teenager, they get too cool for school and for dad. So while I had this precious moment of him tying his shoe, I made sure I stayed present. Now watch this, I would tie his shoe, but as a parent, my my hope is that you know, these moments change. See when he's four, and he comes up to me and says, Dad, can you tie my shoe? That's beautiful. If that dude is 44 we got a problem. So any parent will tell you, the objective, the hope is eventually for them to have that ability, for them to have that autonomy, to do things on their own. And I believe when we create these routines, these rituals, these systems, we help them create mental rubrics that they can use as tools and even toolboxes that they can draw from. So that, yes, it is cool when I can show a kid how to do something on the instrument, but the coolest thing is when they can come back to me and show me that they know how to do it, and that they've even learned something else, and they can show others as well.

Sucheta Kamath: You know, I think the and this is something such a fascinating juxtaposition that we think inspiration means the wow factor, but the wow factor is backed up with nuance of absolute tedium, the my my son, who is doing his doctorate in clinical psychology, and he had his, he starts his externship, which is very long hours of clinical work. He will have his own and his specialty is going to be children, I mean, adolescent and young adults with the, you know, anxiety, stress and suicidal ideation. And so he had his first day yesterday, and he spent eight hours with of orientation, and he says that was the most boring part of the day, and but he's going to see client. He was going to see clients the next day. And so I actually wrote to him, texted him, and I actually said that that no, you know, entree to all good work is through doors of doldrum, of mundane. So I think the that that we dis value, or think it is interfering with success when I have to do routines, and people don't understand that routine actually establishes the groundwork to for creative leaps. But without routine, there's no creative leap, if you only do creative leaps, then there's no accomplishment, because these are ideas. Execution always comes down to routine. You're routinizing your actions, right? 

Mickey Smith Jr.: Yeah. And one more thing on that, too. And I love that. I love that concept, that that the wow factor is the nuance. You know, it's the parts, it's the parts that no one sees. It's the parts that no one knows. It's the work that doesn't always show that's the thing that's so easy to discount and discredit. You know, mentally, we say all this, that's nothing. But the crazy thing is so much, in my case, so. So much of teaching has no thing to do with teaching. People say nothing, because that's too casual. No thing today. Yes, I love that. Tell us more because, because, if you come into my classroom, you'll see that a big part of our success has no thing to do with music. Wow. For example, I have this thing I call first days lasting ways. It's heavily based upon concepts that were not music education concepts, but inspiration I drew from this amazing classroom management guru who recently passed away, Dr. Harry Wong, okay? And Dr. Wong had a book that I didn't really appreciate coming out of college. I didn't understand the value of it, because without that experience and without that connection with experts, right, it just looked like a collection of just random information thrown into this book, but it was anything but. But but I didn't understand that until my first year of teaching, which, by the way, we had two twisted sisters that visited us that year, Katrina and Rita, the hurricanes. That's my first teaching. We were new way until about second week of November, right? We went to school for about two weeks, three weeks, I think, and then we were out of school. We were we were we were told we could not live in the county, the parish, because I'm in Louisiana until November. We were gone. That's how bad the devastation was. So when I came back, needless to say, I'm a new teacher. I've just faced one of the country's worst natural disasters. People are displaced like you wouldn't believe, and I'm struggling. And something said, go back on your shelf and look at that book again. So I went back on the show. I looked at that book again, and, and I went back, and I for the first time, I saw the value of I saw the value and, and fast forward, I started taking those concepts and making them uniquely mine because he didn't have anything in place that necessarily fit or looked like my classroom. But I could see the potential of it when I tell you, watch this. I wouldn't even plan on this. It's worked out so good. I just happen to have this here. Fast Forward, I get a call from get an email from a gentleman. He says, I love your work. This is like, it's got to be like, almost 15 years later, says, Tell me more about it. And I tell him about it. And I'm like, I you know? He says, I'd like to know more Harry, like Harry. I'm like, No way. And I scroll back up, and I looked at like the letterhead, you know how to have on the signature on the on the email, it is Harry Wong, the classroom management guru. And I'm like, This is crazy. So me and he and I begin to have correspondence, you know, about different ideas and such, to the point where now for his latest book, if you look on the front cover, you'll see this funny looking guy, in a red jacket.

Sucheta Kamath: Ok folks, we have a YouTube channel, and Mickey is showing, actually the book, and he is on the front page of Harry Wong's book. So incredible. Full cirlce! 

Mickey Smith Jr.: It makes you want to pinch yourself, you know, because the the ironic part is, he's calling me, asking me for, you know, influence and and ideas. And I'm like, This is crazy. I stole everything from you, you know, type deal. That's one of Harry Wong's things, steal everything right? And

Sucheta Kamath: That goes to show that there's no original idea, but it is how you deliver it. So you delivered in the most profound new ways, yes.

Mickey Smith Jr.: And I tell you, I've had people come to my classroom and they're expecting that wow factor. Musically, again, music sometimes, oftentimes, it's music educators. Ironically, it's the core teachers that often find the most value. But, but the music people come in, and I think they're ex they begin with the end in mind, they're looking for this musical thing that just lights the room on fire. And what they see is teaching that's by design and not by default. They see outcomes that are a result of not, not not happenstance, but habit, stacks, small things done well, stacked on top of each other over time. And if you don't know what you're looking for, it can look like that mundane dundrum, like you said, that's why this guy is dumb. But the fact of the matter is, it's, it's my class operates on what I call, in those first in my first day's lasting wage system, our GPS for success. Wow. And the GPS is guidelines, procedures and systems. And again, these guidelines, procedures and systems take the place of rules. I don't really have rules in my classroom. I just have very specific ways of being and doing that then provides agency for a kid who doesn't know anything about music but every day leaves. Like it's a Wednesday, W, I N, S, they get a win every day because they never leave feeling wholly like an amateur, solely like an amateur, they leave with this feeling of accomplishment, even if I can't play the song the first day. Wow, mom, I came in and I got set up in record time. I learned how to sit correctly. I learned what set means. Do you know what set means?

Sucheta Kamath: Not in music, in music, in music.

Mickey Smith Jr.: You know, they gave us this big book, probably about the size the one I just showed you, of how to execute posture. And, you know, all the all the degree points and all this kind of stuff, head over the shoulders, shoulders directly over the hips. And, you know, make sure the spine is at this angle, and you make sure 90 degree angle with the with the knees and all this stuff, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, a semester of that. But it's like the game telephone. If I were to, if I were to skew all that out to a kid. Again, we're dealing with the music mafia, age eight, okay, if I tell them how to do something, the likelihood that they're all going to do it in the way that I that I need them to for their success, is slim to numb, just like the telephone game. By the time it gets to the 15th or 30th person, it's totally different. And in my classes, I may have 60 kids in the class, so we have to have something that is very reflective of the world they live in. It has to be snapchatable. It has to be Instagramable. It has to be Tiktok it has to be 40 seconds or less. It has to be 40 characters or less. It has to be bite sized, so it can be fun sized learning. So I can't give them that academic demonstration and explanation of posture. I'll have to say something like, first you have to make sure that you're sitting nice and tall, almost like you have a string in your spine. And I'm a puppet. I just pulled you up, and I even do the little sounds. Even with the older ones, they love it. They pretend they don't, but they love it. Next thing you know, they're doing this to themselves, but I've given them a a visual to where they can take this really vague or abstract concept and put, and put, put some concrete nature to it. Then I tell them, you have to have soft shoulders. You have to make sure your shoulders relax. Why? Because you don't want to be tense. See, sometimes we say things to kids and they don't have any experience to line up with it. So I'll say things like soft shoulders. And then I'll go back and explain soft shoulders means to relax your shoulders, because we don't want Tension. Tension is the enemy of success. Anything you try to do successfully, you can't really do it tense. Then I'll tell them, You got to make sure that your shoulder blades meet in the back, so that your chest is out, so that we open up the diaphragm that that lies even below. We want to bellow like an accordion. We want to be able to open up and fill up like a balloon, and we can only do that if we're not crunched or scrunched. I don't even know that's a word, but I tell them crunched or scrunched. We want to make sure we pull the shoulder blades back so you look like Superman, Superwoman, a superhero, because you're about to do a super work and then make sure that your feet are flat on the floor so you can support the weight of what you're doing. Now, you would think that that's a good explanation for this thing called set. But again, think about the game telephone. What's the likelihood that the kids can say it exactly the way I just said it verbatim from one to 62 slim to none. So I have to then break it down even farther and say something like, first, you gotta sit tall, let your shoulders fall, make a meet in the back and put your feet down flat. You gotta sit tall, let your shoulders fall, make a meet in the back and put your feet down first. You gotta sit tall, let your shoulders fall, make a meet in the back and put your feet down flat. You gotta sit tall, let your shoulders fall, make a meet in the back and put your feet down flat. Pop quiz. First you have to do what, sit 

Sucheta Kamath: tall 

Mickey Smith Jr.: let your shoulders 

Sucheta Kamath: fall

Mickey Smith Jr.: make your shoulders meet in the

Sucheta Kamath: back

Mickey Smith Jr.: and put your feet dow

Sucheta Kamath: flat

Mickey Smith Jr.: And the crazy thing is, I never told you to learn. 

Sucheta Kamath: No

Mickey Smith Jr.: I never told you to listen. But by making it engageable, so to speak, and making it bite size, we made it what fun size. Why is that important? Because the chocolate industry figured that out decades ago. If they sell you a king size bar, you'll only buy one, and you'll feel guilty after you eat it all. But if they sell you a bag full of little bite size, you'll eat them and they're small, you'll finish the bag and go, well, it was small. I'll get another one, and before you know it, you've eaten the whole bag. You're going back for another bag, because we made it fun. Size, that's the secret in teaching today's kid. We have to present it in such a way where they can take it and they can make it bite size and tasty for them.

Sucheta Kamath: Wow, this is going to be so inspiring, right? As people, all the educators, parents alike, are at the threshold of entering the New Year, I cannot let you go without hearing you play. A Music Oh, Lord, may I please request something so that your beautiful sound, just so our ears can soak it in. 

Mickey Smith Jr.: Well, I apologize because you don't have it. The horns are in the shop. They're getting maintenance. They're getting they're getting beautified. We all need maintenance. We all have to be refurbished every year. And the horns are no different.

Sucheta Kamath: As we wrap this interview, you know,

Mickey Smith Jr.: I will say this If folks, if folks, want the music, it's never too far away. You can go to the website, MickeySmithjunior.com, and there's a multitude of music on there. You can go to the keep on going store, because that's what we're all about this season, giving you the strategies, giving you the tools and equipping you with the encouragement that help you not only see your sound, but to keep on going in the process, because your significance opens up the door to your resilience. And it's things like the message that we've shared here and the music that goes a long way in helping keeping people encouraged. And of course, if I'm if I'm traveling, I come to your school, you always know the horns will be refurbished. We get them ready for the tour. We got the tour coming up. We about to do the educator encouragement tour. So we got about a 20 city tour. I'm going to school districts across this country, sharing a motivational mixture of that music and message through keynotes and concerts. We call the keep on going educator encouragement tour, and we're excited about but you can go, you can find out more on the website Mickeysmithjr.com

Sucheta Kamath: And we will link all that information in our show notes. So definitely, please follow up. And ladies and gentlemen, if you have children, please get his children's book, and then finally, as Mickey said, the sound, I'm just very unfortunate for us that we are not going to get to here, but next time. There's never no next time. So as I let you go tell us three books if you have recommendations for our audience that have influenced or influenced your worldview.

Mickey Smith Jr.: Yeah, you know, there's, there's a couple that I've I'm gonna give you two plus one, because I'm a weird season right now, a great season. I'm finishing the completion of my book, which is going to be titled, keep on Going. So if you can, if you can understand.

Sucheta Kamath: We will link that to the show notes also.

Mickey Smith Jr.: So that's that's been it'll, it'll be out very, very soon and but we're putting the final touches on it. And so a lot of my focus book wise has been on the completion of the creation of that book. But recently I read a book. It's not a fairly new book, but it's new to me. It's called Relentless by Tim Grover, Tim Grover and he was, uh, he was Kobe Bryant's personal trainer as well as Michael Jordan's personal trainer. And he talks about just some incredible uh mindsets and his perspective on not athletics, but the approach of life and skill and being the best version of you has just been something that really, really spoke to me. So that was a very interesting read, definitely outside of my my my norm, my scope. And then recently, a gentleman by the name of Steven Furtick entitled Do the New You. And that one is one that my wife and I have been reading together, and it's been a very good read as well. And of course, like I said before, a lot of my attention has been on the upcoming book from a maybe a maybe a little less known author by the name of Mickey Smith Jr, entitled Keep on Going.

Sucheta Kamath: Who's going to become very quickly well known all around the globe. So with that, thank you so much for being on the podcast, and thank you listeners for joining us today. As you know, these are very, very vital information conversations we have with experts. But most importantly, how can we create a pathway for success for ourselves and as we are tasked to do, really lead our children to find their inner potential and their as they also begin to trust you are the charismatic adult in their lives from whom they draw strength. So thank you, Mickey. I have so much love and reverence for who you are to our children and what you have been with me, I have learned so much, and maybe just this magic will rub on my fingers and I will play at least sitar if I pick it up.

Mickey Smith Jr.: Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you everyone.